It wouldn’t surprise me if Brendan Power already has worked on this ! But his super bending harps are amazing !!
I just checked Brendan Powers demonstration of Power Bender and Seydels Turboslide on YT. Very fascinating indeed but it got nothing to do with the idea alternating temperaments.
Despite impressed by the technical implication and certainly the musical results also that BP showed but all the same I cant help my reaction that it means an over-complex advancement for a very simple basic construction.
Charles Wheatstone actually suggested a similar function, but with a mechanical - not magnetical - guiding of the pitch change in the patent paper of 1829 for the mouth organ “Symphonium”. It was abandoned…
In the (very) ‘old days’ before the widespread adoption of equal temperament you needed to have your piano re-tuned each time you changed key!
The title of Bach’s “The Well Tempered Clavier” is referring to an “appropriately tuned keyboard” not to a chilled out one.
DavidW, hm… Thats a vast exaggeration is it not ?! There were many “compromised” tunings in the old days as well. In spite of some undeniable cons 150 years ago there was agreements …on fairly rational grounds…to establish ET with pianos and this of course had widespread almost universal impact on other instruments and performance praxis. What to do about that today but also accepting the settled routine for harmonicas as welł…? and not believing you can return ?
Some degree of exaggeration for comic effect yes, but not completely so. There is debate about which of several possible meanings Bach actually intended. See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Well-Tempered_Clavier#Intended_tuning
Personally I have no issue with ET. It’s a compromise that is practical, is perfectly adequate for the vast majority of purposes and (an important factor) is what most people (musicians & otherwise) are used to hearing.
DavidW, good ! Seemingly agreeable between the two of us!
Summing up for my part I have two points in this apart from the said historic aspect.
- I find it amusing when blues harpists proudly declared that a. Chords only sound right and nice like the classic “greats” played them when using JustT. But b. People seem to be forgetting that pianos and guitars were in ET and the combo in real dysharmonic . (But who cares ?? Really?)
- Conclusion: If playing solo on your own only… by all means use JustT if you like it.
BUT in a band ( with piano and/or guitars ) it would actually simply be harmonic wrong to use either JustT or some compromise, since ONLY ET would be “right” ! Have people in general considered that paradox?
Or is the reality that the majority of listeners dont hear the difference and they dont care…,
Seriously, am I the only person who plays standard harmonica stuff (non-melodies) and plays Golden Melodies despite this “law”? Because I feel so ashamed for it.
KeroroRinChou,
By all means DONT be ashamed ! You’re not alone…Im doing the same and with the GM too ! It is always like this when trad bound fan groups are formed that rules are established…often on false or prejudiced grounds. Someone recently told me that Sonny Terry, one of the real GREATS, had used the GM also. Maybe occasionally but still, and he likely wasnt prosecuted for it.
I play chords, fills and solos (single note and multi-notes) mostly ET Suzuki but also Hohner CT. Both work for me and I have no complaints, only compliments, from the two folk/country retiree groups I jam with weekly. On original topic I am playing modern cover plates more now for comfort and enjoyment. Don’t like sharp folded points on cover plates much anymore.
Back to secondary topic: I’m 72 now and have mild hearing loss and I don’t hear a large difference from either temperament, I have been playing music since 1963 (piano lessons) switched more to guitar in 1968 (acoustic-electric) and then added a little harmonica 1970. I consider myself an intermediate player but I’m noticing improvement (I’m a late bloomer).
Guess what? In my experience you can use a tuner and then fine tune your guitar to “perfect” ET, but the minute you lay fingers on the strings things are “moving” slightly out of tune. I have read James Taylor tunes the big E strings on his guitars slightly flat for this reason. When playing the G chord your fat middle finger hits that big fat E string and it can go sharp on you. Moral of story: Everyone may not be perfectly tuned, even that old piano. IMO, of course. PS I love this forum.
Catapaw,
I hope I got you right but it seems to me we are fairly in tune ourselves on all these matters !
What you say about no complaints neither playing ET nor CT I mean tells all of it in fact.
Either most people are not so sensitive for tunings as they believe or most people dont care. There are other important issues in good music making than perfect pitch and further more like you say instrument pitches and tunings are not so stable as many imagine.
I have been tuning squeezeboxes for 50 years. Some “colleagues” proudly announce they tune with an accuracy of +/- 2 cents but that is not meaningful. I may even call it nonsense. The free reeds, either squeezebox or harmonica, mostly dont have such a pitch stability vs pressure, rather +/- 5 cent and below ca 300 Hz as “bad” as 10-15 cent. Worse than that…human pitch discrimination limit is mostly said being ca 5 cent (and like the reeds no better than 10-20 cent in the low region)… so where is the real use of the tuning accuracy of 2 cents?!
( Discrimination of course can be much better when hearing two pitches simultaneously so “beatings” may be heard but that is another story ! ,)
So again…lets not bother so much in vain about perfect tunings. IF…we DO hear some trouble …there probably IS some…if not noticed…just toot on and dont create extra misery !
At last…for covers ( which was the initial/true topic of the “thread” before drifting)…I think the trad short, edgy, painful covers are simply obsolete. It may be a comfortable pleasure to play.
Only prejudice/conservatism speaks against selfevident good ergonomy…
There are already harmonica midi controllers that can do this yes. But a harmonica reed’s pitch can be changed by changing the length of the reed, or the length of a tube after the reed.
For example, a CBH’s chambers in the coverplate alter the pitch of the reed.
Someone could use one or the other of those principles to design a harmonica that could change temperament.
Hogie,
Midi…Do you know someone who uses that in practise? Seems easier to me just picking up another harp?
Changing the ( active) length of the reed
Thats what Seydels have done…and C Wheatstone…and Tom Tonon but with the object varying temperament like I said before seems making a complicated construction not quite compatible with the fundamental simplicity and “idea” of diatonic harps
But application of the mechanical slide principle of the classical chromatic with the Richter layout of the diatonic ?!
I saw the other day such a construction being presented by double reed sets and the slide giving flat semitones instead of sharp ones as with the “normal” chromatic. THAT is an obviously useful innovation for advanced blues playing without need of the tricky bending procedure I think. A practical (!) kind of improvement of playing conditions !
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A tube after the reed…Can you describe that a bit to clarify the function?
CBH…Im not familiar with the term. Please tell, and show some example !
“Someone”…possibly…but is it worth the trouble really ? Many theoretically possible inventions maybe better stay theoretical…
Buy the Trochilus with the blue comb.
Carlos1, YES ! Do you use one? That is what I saw the other day along with the “Game changer”. Absolutely ingenious in my view…a chromatic combined with a blues harp. Perfect! An extension also of the idea with the “Chordomonica” . I have had three of these for 60 years ! They actually offer some useful blues scale options also having the minor 3rd and minor 5th. Trochilus …a salvation for all desperate bending failures ?!!
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Yes, @Ramino , I have four of these Trochilus harps. With both the red and the blue combs. I personally prefer the red comb models because they permit full chromatic scales across 3 full octaves without any bends or overblows.
The blue comb models are akso more familiar to diatonic blues harp players, but do require bends, etc.
Pete Hogie @Hogie.Harmonica has published a book about these “Game Changers” (as they are branded in the USA) and I advise you to buy it.
I hadn’t really looked at the red comb Trochilus before. Wow! It’s more different than I thought with those three cases where the slide lowers the note instead of raising it!
Edit: For some reason that video doesn’t want to embed, hence the link instead.
Carlos1, Great ! I checked what I found. Very attractive system indeed except one stupid detail …I am an ergonomic fanatic and I dont approve of the edgy shape.Is there some smoother design variant?? I just got used to Mars1 after Golden Melody for decades…and for the pure reason of max comfort.
I havent found any retailer except Aliexpress and their presentation is not so informative. Is there any more maker of the concept…using a handier shape?
Wonder if one of my Chordomonicas might be converted this way ?? 12 holes and a similar slide…
Thank you @DavidW and @Ramino for your replies. Today I had surgery on my ear and at the moment I have quite strong head / ear pain, so I will keep this short.
As @DavidW mentions the red comb model (“Pop Tuning”) is rather different, but I adapted very quickly – and I love it. You can play in any of the 12 harmonica positions without any special skills or “tricks”. You rapidly find rarely used positions that open new doors for expressing yourself.
@Ramino : I am not aware of any other designs that might be more comfortable for you to use. Perhaps @Hogie.Harmonica knows more, but I think he might still be in China.
Carlos1, I ll try writing to Hogie.The address you gave before seemed vague can you confirm it, please ?
Is it worth a try asking JDR or other makers taking an individual order ?
Ive seen there are more or less private resources making custom harmonicas.
Any suggestions?
It wouldnt take so much from any ordinary chromatic to modify it to the GameChanger concept as far as I can see briefly. Or?
@Ramino can we keep the Game Changer convo on the Game Changer thread going forward? New Game Changer harmonica - #100 by Luke