@Hogie.Harmonica One of the benefits of non-valve chromatics is they are easy to bend, perhaps not to diatonic style but bending is quite normal when required. @Andy2 At least 50% of those who come to the studio don’t work from written music it’s quite often listening to their music and adding your own take on how it might work until they hear something they like. Unless it’s classical dots can detract from the feel of the sounds. I play quite a lot of free expression jazz so I also make it up as I go along 
Jay1
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Yes I have several Forerunners and a few solo-tuned trochilus. Also I have a half-valved Quartz from JDR.
I used the Foreunners a lot when I was first learning because I was practicing outside a lot and wanted to not worry about the valves. The Trochilus I use as a to-go way to practice low-end scales, corner-switching, and training my mind to the solo layout.
I really like the idea of half-valved, especially when listening to Brendon Power. But I’ve not felt much love for them in my hands, not sure why.
Having a background in classical music, my mind natively thinks in notes and not holes & hole patterns. On diatonic I know the holes well, less-so on solo tuning. On solo tuning if you said “play a 9 draw” I’d say, “uhhhhhhh one second (looks at harp)” but if you “play D” I could play all 5 without thinking about it.
But I’m getting into more difficult music on the Chromatic, where the phrasing has to be specific, so you have to choose the right C as you learn the piece (e.g., pick and stick). So I’m practicing memorizing the hole numbers to link to the note names like I did on DIatonic.
As for “dots restricting the feel of the notes”, this is something that goes away at a certain point in the learning curve. Learning to read music opens doors that are otherwise welded shut I’d I’d recommend it to everybody seriously interested in the harmonica.
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Jason Ricci posted a Jazz Lesson in C Diatonic the other day had a crack at it, and decided I would have a go with the Chromatic I found my self getting a lot more creative, it gave me ideas to play on my diatonic so I switched back and forth between the two, it was odd because despite the difference Diatonic and Chromatic solo they seemed to be informing me what to try on each harmonica, I know that may sound a bit strange but it’s true.
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Many athletic records began to fall once cross-training became a big part of being an athlete. I think it is similar to that. You form new physical skills and mental pathways.
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@Hogie.Harmonica and @Andy2 I’m not a trained musician, nor am I even a trained harmonica player, It just seemed to come naturally once I got my head around solo tuned chromatics. Learning to read music was relatively easy as during my 1st career at sea, Teach Yourself to Read Music was about the only book in the ship’s library that nobody else wanted so it stayed in my cabin as my off-watch reading for about 5 months. In the studio I’ll sometimes play from the dots if they have them, usually it’s just guitar chords available or just listen to the sounds made by others but once it’s into my head, although not aware of it until told, I play with my eyes closed. As to hole numbers, except possibly for the first root note hole, after that I’ve no idea, it’s just how it sounds. It can make it difficult to play identically several times but I take comfort that Sonny Terry when auditioning for Finian’s Rainbow admitted he couldn’t play identically each night. I’ve tried half valved chroms and 16 hole chroms but just prefer my Forerunners they just seem to work for me. I’ve been tempted to try solo tuned Trochilus but thought ‘Why?’ I’m happy with what I have, in the late great Colin Chapman’s words ‘Why fix it if it’s not broken.’ Jay1
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Yeah Forerunners are a fave non-valved for me. I have not tried the 2.0 yet but I remember being pretty excited when it came out.
I’m also curious how a forerunner does when valved. But I have too many harmonica projects already!
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I play guitar and several other instruments ( my dad has said to his friends that if you can blow it, bang it or strum it my son can play it) not 100% accurate, but I do have an attitude for it. As I’ve mentioned before Im late diagnosis high Functioning Asperger’s which is probably the reason, all autistic people have a thing it’s usually an obsession of some sort ( some can be healthy some er, not so much) I think music is my thing. I’m not an expert in any of the instruments I play, I can just play them. My main obsession is ( after my wife who I love more than I could express in words) the Harmonica is the instrument I love ( my grand dad played harp both diatonic and Chromatic he learned in the forces) and I’m pretty obsessed with getting as good as I can get. When I first learned there was no Internet so learning resources where records, or books ( most of which had notation or Tab of some form, which I’ve never got on with, so it was learning from records and trying to expand on what I learned. These days you will find me perusing the net watching new vids by Ronny Shellist or Jason Ricci and all the other harp players that enjoy sharing their knowledge. It really started opening things up for me ( learning some of the terms was the first thing, I had no idea of what a scoop was etc. that’s why I’m here and if I can help new players with what I’ve learned then great.
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@Jay1 I am continuing in the being-very-tempted to dive in category. I just picked up a my East Top 12-hole, key of A, that I bought last August at SPAH in Tulsa. (Interestingly I then picked up my Hohner 270 Deluxe and did not enjoy it as much - not sure if that’s so much a function of brand or register.)
I had been corresponding in email with Michael Rubin and mentioned to him about my feeling tempted to dive in, but resisting because of lacking the time already to practice everything I’d like to be practicing on the diatonic.
He responded with the same words y’all have been discussing here: “If you’re enjoying the diatonic and have plenty to work on, stay there for a while. I do believe chromatic makes your diatonic better though”
@Hogie.Harmonica I’m the exact opposite of you. I’m not thinking hole #'s, only have more recently in the context of teaching and talking about harmonica, but I’m always thinking in terms of the hole relationship patterns and intervals, NEVER note names.
I do have a couple questions for you though - I’m so not used to the solo tuning - when it comes to the doubled C notes, do you always use one or the other in certain contexts?
Also, @Hogie.Harmonica I think you mentioned a primer that you think is really good? I’m considering maybe I should buy it and put it on a music stand to entice myself, lol.
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@Hogie.Harmonica I honestly can’t tell much difference between the Forerunner 1 and 2 except F2 comes in different keys. F1 has, in my view, more comfortable cover plates with better grip but as to tone nothing in it. Because I wanted Ab; Bb; D; E & F# they had to be F2s. Forerunner’s comb design doesn’t lend itself to valves, it’s not something I’d try but I expect someone will or has, @Andy2 I can help you with SCOOP, it’s what dog walkers carry 
otherwise I’ve no idea what it means in harmonica terms so do tell. @Luke when it comes to the doubled C notes, do you always use one or the other in certain contexts? I’ve never really taken much notice but expect it depends upon the note before of after, for example if the note before or after the C is G A G# or A# I’d probably use hole 4 for the C however if the note before or after is E F D D# I’d probably use hole 5 it’s all from where I’m coming from or going to but I play by more by instinct than hole numbers. Jay1
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From what I can discern a scoop is when a note is bent very quickly from low to high and leads into another note, however I’ve also noted it means different things to different players in which case take your pick. The two guys I tend to follow most are Jason Ricci and Ronnie Shellist who seem to agree on my understanding of that term. But I’ve noticed others use it in a different sense ( especially some of the English guys) so it does tend to be a bit confusing. One of my autism traits is understanding language and how people use it. So I always say to people please show me don’t tell me as I’m more of a practical visual learner.
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@Andy2 Thanks Andy, never heard of it but then I don’t usually play diatonics. Jay1
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Yeah I’ve heard that term “scoop” I call it a “swoop” 
. You can do it on a Chromatic too of course! Stevie does it all the time!
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Stevie is a professional and highly talented musician way above my even dreamed ability on chromatic harmonica so @Andy2 description of ‘scoop is when a note is bent very quickly from low to high and leads into another note’ is something I don’t think I’ve ever consciously tried. I’ll give it a go when I get a chance but like @Luke ‘but resisting because of lacking the time already to practice everything I’d like to be practicing’ Interesting comment by @Luke ‘I just picked up a my East Top 12-hole, key of A, that I bought last August at SPAH in Tulsa. (Interestingly I then picked up my Hohner 270 Deluxe and did not enjoy it as much’. Could it be the mouthpiece shape? I’ve found the EastTop mouthpiece much more comfortable than the 270 Jay1
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Quality Chromatics becoming more cost effective and more accessible in different keys I think is one big reasoning for the “bump” in chromatic players. A 12 hole forerunner 2 can be found for 40 bucks if you look around a bit. The Trochilus as a sort of bridge into chromatics for diatonic players is also a big help.
Never before has it been possible to have multiple high quality chromatics in different keys in yoru harp case without spending a small fortune for it.
Also, less impactful now but probably more impactful in the near future: chromatic harmonicas tunings have generally provided the benefit of having the same note layout in every octave. This is honestly more hugely impactful I think than people give it credit for learning to utilize the whole instrument.
The light bulb moment comes on when you pick up your first chromatic and play in 3rd position over a backing track. Without even using the slide you have immediate access to dorian and the blues scale across the whole harp without having to learn different patterns for the low, middle and high octaves.
To get the same benefit on a diatonic you would need to go to alternate tunings.
Now the options have been busted wide open. You can get a chromatic harp tuned like the richter you are familiar with, or in bebop tuning, or C6 tuning, or in whatever alternate tunings you want, without breaking the bank. Accessibility and options are opening up new worlds.
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@dominico Wow! You are so right! There are some who look down on Forerunners based on their low cost and being non-valve but they are well built, affordable and with very little ‘customising’ can become go-to professional quality chromatics. I use them in preference to my many other valved chromatics for studio work and I’ve never had to replace one or part of one yet. There are also Kimise (if you can find one) and Easttop 10 hole chromatics, both made by Easttop that make good ‘every day carry around’ harmonicas for less than $25.
Totally agree about the same note layout in every octave and the Dorian scale but don’t ignore the very safe Pentatonic scales that on chromatics are the ‘get out of jail free’ notes. It takes a real effort to get things wrong using Pentatonic scales.
One of the real advantages of solo tuned chromatics is the ability to use them as two solo tuned diatonics so six chromatics give all 12 western solo tuned diatonic scales.
There seem to be Four concerns about playing chromatic; the first, price has now been dealt with. Second, the double notes at 4&5 and 8&9 that shouldn’t take long to get used to; next that it doesn’t sound like a diatonic especially for blues, valid but several early bluesmen played both and finally the button and I’d suggest don’t use it to start with and then gradually find its worth.
Now I’d like your (and others) take on how to encourage more harmonica players to try chromatic with a little help from their friends on the forum. Jay1
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I’ve got to be honest the repeated notes on 4&5 and 8&9 never bothered me, I found playing it very instinctive, I watched a ton of videos with basic lessons on YouTube, put on backing tracks and went from there. I found my Chromatic’s to be great for playing both major, Minor blues and now I’m playing along with the odd Jazz track which has helped expand my knowledge a bit more. Especially for diatonic, I am now playing third position diatonic on all my harps again to backing tracks whereas before I only had a smattering of how to play 3rd position now I’m really getting into it. I’ve already said how it’s improved my tongue blocking. I was speaking to a fellow harp player the other day about playing Chromatic, he said he saw it as cheating because you used the slide to bend the notes. He was surprised when I told him that you didn’t have to do that and that bendable notes like a diatonic were available without using the slide, and that’s how the early Blues players learned to play it using it the same as a diatonic. It seemed to get him interested, I said that I’m not only a fan of those early guys but also the modern players such as Wilson, Clarke and DeLay and others, he didn’t however seem to be aware of these players. So hopefully I’ve turned him on to looking them up.
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@Andy2 @dominico Your guy who thinks it’s cheating because you can use the slide to bend notes has never played a valveless. That’s like saying drivers who use a syncro or automatic gearbox are cheating because they they don’t have to double de-clutch. So perhaps that’s another reason why some diatonic players avoid chroms. This forum is starting to dispel some of the myths and the more myths are outed the better it will be for those who want to give chroms a go. Anyway, Andy you’re an example that diatonic players can, if they want to, play chroms with a bit of faith and perseverance Jay1
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@Andy2 As you’re getting into jazz, earlier today I was asked if I could do a couple numbers at the studio you might fancy having a go at them. I used a C chrom for both. FIrstly The Stripper in F, as far as I can remember starting on C D F A G F C# etc. The other one was Dave Brubeck’s Take Five in Bb minor Part 1 starts A D F G G# A G# G F Part 2 is D F D Bb G A Bb B C E C A I had no music available so just had to work them out, hope the notes are right they’re just from memory so I may not have been playing exactly as above but it sounds about right. Best of luck Jay1
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I’ve been playing a long with Jazz backing tracks,that people have made up. I’m doing mostly horn lines, that a horn section might play, and trying solos it’s going pretty well.
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Horn section is what I’m usually asked to play if the group doesn’t have horns available otherwise it’s solos, glad you’re doing so well 
Jay1
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