A question about vocal mics (ball tipped, not stick type)

I’ve been told for many years by “experts” on Facebook that vocal mics like the SM58 distort whenever I cup them. I tell them that they don’t and that cupping adds compression, which is not distortion. Then they tell me that I “need to improve my technique” and that I needed big hands to play with them or that I should play on a stand.
From my experience with playing through the PA, I never had this issue. I could cup a Sennheiser or a SM58 and it sounds very clean and not distorted. Even at my latest show whenI was asked if I needed a stand or not, I chose not to. The microphone sounded fine and I could be heard as well. So I don’t know why harmonica “experts” think that every vocal mic distorts and that I should get a bullet. I already have a bulletini, as I got one used, but it’s was only after I got peer-pressured into buying one and it’s also for when I use pedals and an amp.

2 Likes

Yes, my friend they do compress they don’t distort I play clean a lot because it’s the gear the band has got. I also have small hands that is not a barrier you just adapt you hand position a little, I also work on perfecting other techniques like throat vibrato warbles etc. I can’t move my head a lot due to a injury I have had for years in my neck acquired whilst practicing Martial arts, so I do my trills with my hands, since I’ve started playing round holes harps I’ve found this technique works loads better. The harp Mic I own but have so far not used live is a Silverfish that has both clean and dirty options, when I put my own band together I will use this, But now I use the standard mic with just a lick of reverb on it and that sounds very clean. I don’t know what these Idiots you’ve been talking to are smoking but they are certainly talking utter bollocks as we say here in the UK. Just carry on what you’re doing be the best you that you can be. I think you will find people on this site far more supportive than wherever it is you get this info. They seem to think that all blues player play dirty, they don’t they mix it up sometimes they use a stand to free their hands up it gives them better hand techniques such as really pronounced wahs a country blues sort of style or Sonny Boy Williamson II style ( which is actually amplified country blues) sometimes the song might require a clean sound but played directly into the mic for like a pre-war blues. Dirty is usually used for straight ahead Chicago blues but it is used also be West Coast style players who also use all three techniques for variety they also play jump blues, and Jazz tinged blues that require all three techniques sometimes

All of the Facebook “experts” do not know much about vocal mics or even PA systems, because they say that all mics distort and that I need to either grow big hands or play with a stand, which the stand limits my movement. I was asked at my most recent show if I wanted to use a stand or not. I didn’t and I ended up sounding pretty good with cupping the mic. I was even told by a mic maker that bullet mics can sound clean for country, which I’ve never seen anybody in country music or any kind of music use a bullet for a clean sound.

@KeroroRinChou I use, among other mics, a cupped sm58 with a chromatic for studio work and that has to be clean or the sound engineers get irritated, if they want any distortion they will put it in from the desk. You used the term ‘experts’ to translate ex= past it and spurt = a drip under pressure :rofl: . I’d suggest you dump Facebook and take on board what you get from this forum where there seems to be greater and more accurate knowledge. Jay1

1 Like

I can’t. I have many groups that I manage on there and how will I communicate with people who actually give me human decency? That’s my biggest issue.

1 Like

You can block the assholes. If they think a Bullet mic distorts through the PA then they don’t play live, a bullet mic won’t distort through a standard guitar amp let alone a PA, most harp players either plump for a tube amp which does distort because you are pushing valves and the volume to get distortion, or If they use a standard ie valveless guitar amp they will have a pedal ( like a lone wolf or a Joyo American amp modelling guitar pedal which impersonates most fender amps) do if they think a bullet distorts through a standard valveless Amp or a PA they f-----g idiots that are not worth the time of day.

1 Like

@KeroroRinChou Have you thought of getting the ‘human decency’ people to join you on this forum? They will be welcome and those who spout rubbish will become better educated, it’s a potentially win-win opportunity for you, the forum and for those who have views to air, right or wrong. As a harmonica player you will always be given human decency here. Jay1

@Andy2 Sorry Andy I don’t know enough about mics. amps or the things in between, for me it’s all about what the sound engineers want, I just suck and blow hopefully in the right place; at the right time and into the right bit of kit and it’s worked for a lot of time. For me where ignorance is bliss it’s a folly to be wise :rofl:Jay1

1 Like

@Jay1 well most of my playing is either practicing in the house ( which is not really playing it’s an endless cycle of repeated techniques that I’m trying to sharpen) or my Chromonica which is basically just trying my damnedest to get it to work on a backing track. Most of my actual playing is Live. At our local gig venues there’s several bands who invite me up on the stage area to play. I also sometimes sing, and I’ve had a few bands that I’ve fronted and led. You learn all this stuff when you play live. I have my own PA I also have an amplifier with an amp modeller built in. But that got a bit heavy to lug around, so now I D.I. ( derect input) into the PA using my Joyo American amp modelling pedal a spring reverb ( also Joyo) and a noise gate to prevent feedback but thus far I’ve only used these and my Silverfish mic down at the studio once a month to refine my sound and to see what sounds good through the PA and what doesn’t. I am used to big set ups and small more intimate set ups. For example I always set up last and soundcheck because I found over the years that doing it in an empty room where there are no bodies absorbing the sound will throw your sound out etc. at the moment because I mostly jam with some of the biggest and best bands in our area, I go through their gear which usually a sure vocal mic with a smidgen of reverb from the PA it’s not my sound, that’s me fitting in with the band as best I can luckily I have done songs like “Got my mojo working” and “Key to the highway” numerous Muddy Waters and Howling Wolf songs my memory for blues songs is thankfully huge as is my knowledge of licks, fill, and solos that I cop off, or bits and pieces where I may nick a bit of something recognisable as a tribute. So when it comes to playing live through amps and PA’s my experience is extensive, I have played in the studio when asked by bands. Usually they have a half decent valve amp I can go into which has a D.I. into the recording equipment then it’s just a matter of using my spring reverb and my noise gate. But anyone who believes that you can go directly in a transistor guitar amp or a PA without a pedal and you can get it to distort just using your hands is frankly a Know-nothing idiot.

1 Like

@Andy2 WOW! I’m not that dedicated. I normally only play what |'m asked to at the studio, almost always the melody line and once everyone is happy with it I’m off unless, as sometimes happens, I’m needed to play drums, double bass or keyboard as they are all available. Don’t have any wish to play to an audience and prefer playing jazz with a trio for our own mutual amusement or possibly bemusement and occasionally jamming when the mood takes me. When traveling a lot a chromatic was easy to carry around (lot easier than a double bass or drum kit!) and it opened doors to music in the various countries but since January, having been appointed to a UK based position my harmonica practice time has diminished even further. What I know about mics, amps, pedals etc could be written on the back of a postage stamp. I use a SM58, a very old green bullet or my favorite a 1970s AKG D1200E plugged into whatever bit of thick string the sound engineer hands to me. That’s where my knowledge ends. Jay1

1 Like

I’ve been working at getting a band together but having very little luck. But I’ve been fully invested in this for years, the problem is where I live, in the Black country and it’s pretty much all rock bands around here no one seems to play clean, I wouldn’t mind a little dirt on the guitar like the stones sort of thing. But I really don’t want to play heavy rock in a 12 bar blues format, because that’s heavy rock. I also write songs, I play guitar too ( and I can play about 17 different instruments) so I know what I want guitar wise? I know how I want to sound and how I want the band to sound
. It’s something I’ve been working on for years and years. All the bands in the area are familiar with what I do, they love to get me up to play, and even though it’s not really me but I do enjoy it.

1 Like

I prefer not to cup it, but sometimes have to if the band is loud. It doesn’t sound distorted to me when I do. Just louder.

1 Like

Interesting! I always hold the mic, probably being chromatic it’s not true cupping but I don’t like using the studio mics. Jay1

1 Like

@Jay1 right come to think of it that’s how I like to record clean in the studio too if I’m not using any hand wah effect. But live I’m always just playing through the vocal mic on the stand for clean, and cupped with mic in hand for dirty. Interesting.

2 Likes

Luke, I’m a lawyer so of course I NEVER play dirty :innocent: :innocent: :innocent: :innocent:

2 Likes

I’ve posted before I don’t want to be drawing air through a harmonica that’s in close proximity to a mic someone else has been spluttering over, perhaps a bit fussy but safety 1st. Jay1

1 Like

That’s why I carry a spray bottle of Isopropanol with me, one lung can’t afford to catch colds or flu it cripples me for weeks and the recovery is a nightmare