Hi all,
In the B to B course we are told to try and know which scale degree a note is while playing. Not only is that hard while thinking which hole bend or blow…too many numbers, but I also don’t understand how that is useful. If one learns a melody, 1st position C, how does that help when going to another key?? In another key that 6 in C major (A) , becomes C# in the key of E major.
What am I missing and if you show to me that it is indeed helpful how should I approach doing it???
Thanks for any feedback.
Cheers
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For me this part of your question itself shows the answer.
The beauty of learning the scale degrees is that when you change keys the 6 is still the 6.
For example if you know the melody follows a scale degree pattern of 51 123 123 65 then you know the tune in every key.
If you play more than one instrument you also know the tune for those other instruments - provided you know where the scale degrees are on those too of course. 
Does that make any more sense now?
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Hey @DavidW it’s been awhile my friend. Great to see you! Great response here.
Does that make sense @expat48?
I hear what you’re saying about hole numbers and interval numbers being confusing.
The goal’s here are two-fold:
1.) On the harmonica, to connect SOUND to FEELING rather than hole number on the harmonica. When I’m playing harmonica, I’m never thinking “I’m on hole #X”. I’m just thinking “I want THIS sound.”
2.) Away from the harmonica, to connect SOUND to INTERVAL number. The first notes of Mary Had a Little Lamb, rather than thinking C C G G, it’s more helpful to think 1 1 5 5, because then as @DavidW it translates to any key on any instrument.
More here:
This stuff takes a long time, and there’s no shortcut. A lot of patience is required with the process. If you’re wanting to speed up the process, 5 minutes/ day with the EarMaster software would be a wise investment.
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Thanks,both of you it finally sunk in as to playing something on different keys.
Luke, I get point #1 and learn a song that way.
But if I learn that scale degree 6 (C harp) is A, when I hear A when playing an F harp it is not degree 6, but degree 3…see my point??
Hi @expat48
I look at scale degrees as notes relative to the root note of the scale I am playing. So when playing in C major, scale degree 6 (A) has a very specific “feeling” with respect to the root note (C).
Then, playing in F major the 6th degree note is D and (to me) it has the same “feeling” with repect to the root note (F) of the F major scale as did the note A when playing in C major.
I hope this helps.
Regards,
– Slim 
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Thanks Slim that makes a lot of sense now. I think I was looking at it in another way…it’s the relation to the ROOT note that is the key not how one 6 note sounds to another 6 note, and even when the key of the harp changes the relationship stays the say…
Right on bro, appreciate it.
Cheers
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Hey @expat48
I’m very glad that this helped to make one use of scale degrees more clear. For harp players that seems to be a useful approach.
Regards,
– Slim
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Yep! Especially for harp players, guitar players, bass players.
But I mean it’s a helpful approach for ALL musicians. And all of the professional musicians that I’ve played with and admire certainly hear, understand, and talk in terms of intervals (even the drummers! 
)
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That’s what you do at practice, not performance. The blow draw and hole number is the same on all the haps. Learn it in one key and it should play the same on every harp. In the 60 years I played I never “thought” of/about the “name” of a note (except in practice) and not really even then.The theory did not come first. The theory is just a way to talk about it, it’s descriptive not prescriptive.
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I think in notes and scale degrees (through to the 9) . However, I’ve been doing it long enough that it is 100% automatic. Sometimes I need to think about the harmonica itself, but that is only for patterns I haven’t internalized.
The benefits of doing this are enormous. It allows me to sight read. It also means understanding harmony is not complicated.
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Tbh, this is the way I do it, numbers generally confuse the hell out of me so playing by ear for me is the way to go. I only a basic knowledge of music theory and I tend not to worry about it or get bogged down in it, for the style of music I play it’s really not much of a concern anyway. If I can break the rules somehow, and it’s within context of the song I will, but not just for the sake of it. To me it has to sound cool. One of the musicians I love the most is the guitarist Joe Walsh, I saw an interview with at a big guitar convention and he basically said “Guys if you are here for any big secrets or revelations I’m sorry but the truth is I’ve been playing for all these years and I still don’t have a f-----g clue what I’m doing, I’m just making s–t up as I go!” That kind of stuck with me? I mean he doesn’t get bogged down in theory so basically it allows him a massive amount of freedom. If you listen to his guitar solo on one of his most famous tracks “Life’s been good” it’s just after a synth solo, the way he plays guitar the bends in the notes the guitar almost sounds drunk! It’s very simple, the other thing he does he makes a theme with the first part, the he plays it backwards then he plays the same thing again changing just a couple of notes. All of his solos tell a story, all stories have a beginning middle and end ( Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top also does this) I think for solos especially you need to find the starting point and build it a bit at a time. I know every solo I play isn’t the same as the last one I played, I always change something it makes thing more interesting. Any way that is my two penny worth about playing by ear. Especially if you’re worried about theory
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This will sound like a hot take but it isn’t - slowly learning music theory will make anybody’s ear stronger. It’s just a thing about humans, they can more easily recognize things they have names for.
If it seems overwhelming, the key is to take it in small bites. Adults, as a rule, often give themselves unreasonable expectations when it comes to learning music. In addition, it is really easy for people with theory knowledge to overwhelm people who don’t. It has a lot of terms that are really handy, so once you learn it, it becomes second hand and you forget that most people don’t know it.
Its also true that some theorists set a different tone for music theory - like it is supposed to be restrictive. There’s applications where that’s true (like if you are targeting to play a specific genre accurately - which is what theorists spend most of their time describing). But for people carving their own path, its is better to just think of theory a set of mental tools you can use at will.
As an example, you described a very succinct theory about a good solo. To summarize, a good solo includes:
- An opening theme
- The opening theme played in retrograde (e.g., backwards)
- Repetition with subtle variation
- Follows the structure of a story (has an exposition, a development, and a finale)
- Solos need an entry point that is built upon slowly (e.g., don’t crash onto it noodle away)
- Solos should not be played the same way every time - it is the variation from performance to performance that keeps it interesting.
What you’ve described is a high-level music theory! You could argue that such a theory is a better way to describe what is happening in your genre than more detailed approaches.
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A hi level of music Theory? And all I’ve done is spent a lot of time playing and listening, and still trying to get it right:rofl:
Who woulda thunk!
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Well, high-level meaning “general” as in the phrase “high-level overview” rather than “wow this theory is better than other theories.”
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I would love to hear some of your playing. Please include a link to one of your files.
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I’ve been trying to figure out how to post something. I have a video of myself Jamming with a band but unfortunately the vid quality isn’t great. And the sound is not good as it’s in a night club that’s practically all marble and glass so the sound is bouncing everywhere. Im thinking of doing a Train for the train thread. And just recording one of my practices. It will be a case of watch this space.
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Sure, here is a link to my YouTube channel. I just started it this spring so not too many videos yet. https://www.youtube.com/@PeterHogie
If you like blues, this vid is more in that direction: https://youtu.be/4pYkgsPNtpE?si=8T9wOMXxqmvsvDEV
Something more modern: https://youtu.be/9ErU4QjGuzQ?si=nj5ue5oBrQmJIjWx
Something about the Trochilus: https://youtu.be/xuEclnwgWPo?si=UAfoWxu5H1J4biVd
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Awesome vids @Hogie.Harmonica . You have a great vibe to your playing I especially enjoyed lofi summertime harmonica.
Thanks for sharing
Mike
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Thanks heaps. Wow. You’re a consummate professional. Loved your teaching style. I live near Floreat beach West Australia. Which beach is that in the first video?
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Awesome @Hogie.Harmonica, what a beautiful sound.
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