Hi all! I’ve been practicing the harmonica blues scale:
-2 -3’ 4 -4’ -4 -5 6
But here’s my super basic question: what do I do with this scale after?
Here’s my understanding of it, correct me if I’m wrong: the “blues” (2nd position) scale replaces the default richter scale which is just 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 -9 -8 -7 -6 -5 -4 -3 -2 -1
so theoretically there should be all those tabs which are meant for these “blues scale notes”
I feel, somewhere along the way my understanding of what this is for went off-track and I am missing something obvious
If I understand your question right, you use the blues scale to play the Blues. Each bar of the blues has a different root/tonic note that gets played at the beginning, end, or beginning and end of each bar.
I still have a relatively loose grasp on this, but the I chord would be the 1 note on the scale as a tonic note, and IV & V chord would be the 4th and 5th notes on the scale accordingly as root notes.
thanks DK360, the issue for me is that I don’t fully understand what it is I don’t understand, if that makes sense
= do specific harmonica tabs exist for the blues scale?
= can you give me 1 example of a harp tab that’s designed for the blues scale?
=OR are blues harp tabs just any tab for blues music that’s made up from bluesy notes like -3’?
So for example, let’s take this random “blues” tab from harptabs:
-6 -6’ +5 -5 -4 -4’ -3 +4 +3 -3 -2 -2’’ -1 -2
the above lick uses notes such as -2’', -1 which are NOT part of the blues scale, hence my question of what the above “blues scale” is needed for - is it just to compose/freestyle licks? Is it just to practice the sounds?
Yes, there are different Blues scales depending on what position you play in.
Arguably the most common Blues Scale is in 2nd position, which I have the tabs for on my Blues cheatsheet.
I think the ‘Mo Better’ blues is in 2nd position, but the only tabs I found were videos. Just google 2nd position blues Harmonica songs and I am sure you will find a lot. Harptabs.com is great.
The ‘Blue note’ is a unique feature of the Blues scale, which would otherwise be the minor pentatonic scale. Depending on which position you play Harmonica in, the ‘blue note’ is going to be in a different spot on your harp - Because each position is going to play the blues scale differently.
Hi @yuriythebest Do you mean by the ‘Blues Scale’, as being the same as the minor Pentatonic Scale plus one additional note? This is just from memory, it’s a long time since I played blues in anything but 3rd position chromatic and I play by instinct as to what sounds right rather than by dots or tabs. @Luke or one of the others will be a better guide for you. I’d also be interested to know if what I’ve remembered is right so don’t take this as gospel until we’ve both had it confirmed, the additional note is the 4th note of the scale so Am the 4th note added is Eb; for Abm/G#m add D; for Bbm/A#m add E; for Bm add F; for Cm add F#; for Dbm/C#m add G; for Dm add Ab; for Em add Bb; for Ebm/D#m add A; for Fm add B; for Gm add C# and for F#m/Gbm add C.
As noted earlier I play by instinct as to what sounds right rather than by dots or tabs, try feeling the music to quote one of the original blues men ‘If what I’m doing is wrong I don’t want to be right’ Jay1
thanks DK! Okay, I think now I have like 50% of the answer - some tabs DO exist,
for anyone else searching go here: https://www.harptabs.com/searchsong.php?Name=blues&HarpType=0
and in those click ctrl+F and find those containing the word “2nd” in the name, usually those are for second position blues
I was also able to formulate the rest of my question more clearly now:
Don’t forget that the minor blues scale is made from the 1st, the flat 3rd, the 4th the flat 5th, the 5th and the flat 7th notes of the parent major key. So on a C harp played in 2nd position, those are the following notes: G, Bb, C, Db, D, F. So anywhere on the C harp where these notes can be found or produced are notes from the minor blues scale, such as on these holes:
+1 (C), -1’ (Db), -1 (D), -2" (F) … then the ones you already mention (-2, -3’, +4, -4’, -4, -5) … and continuing on up: +6 (G), +6o (Bb), +7 (C), -7o (Db), -8 (D), -9 (F), +9 (G), +10" (Bb), +10 (C) and -10o (Db).
Also do not forget that the notes from this minor blues scale can be played during the entire 12 bars of a 12 bar blues (provided that you are using a C blues harp and the blues is a blues in G). Other notes can be added in to give additional “flavor” and variety, but that is a matter of taste and no real hard and fast rules exist for that.
hi Slim!
Okay, could we delve deeper into playing 12 bar blues for G on a C harp?
I found quite a number on harptabs,
Here is 12 Bar Blues Boogie for G harp:
Now, to play that on a C harp in the blues scale of
-2 -3’ 4 -4’ -4 -5 6
I’d need to transpose the numbers right, so do I need to do the below steps for every note to “convert” the melody? Do you guys do it on the fly or do you write it down first?
is the above way correct? Also, for the second step should I use
1 -1 2 -2 3 -3 4 -4 5 -5 6 -6 7 -7 8 -8 9 -9
OR
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 -9 -8 -7 -6 -5 -4 -3 -2 -1 ?
I’m honestly hoping someone will just say “noo you completely misunderstood and are overthinking it, it’s not that complicated you just need to do __________”
I actually theorized it could be this simple a while back, but all of the youtube videos and diagrams just made it seem so complicated and that there was “more to it”, which led me on this wild goose chase
@yuriythebest ; @Dk360; @Slim After I’d qualified as a lawyer I was given a ceramic plaque to go on the wall, I still have it, it reads ‘If you can’t convince them confuse them’ Internet and youtube can take that to a whole new level. Glad @yuriythebest you’ve got it sorted, now just enjoy playing. Jay1
The 12 positions don’t refer to the number of holes on a blues harp. They refer to the 12 tones that are used as the basis of most of the music played in the western world (and “No” I do not mean western as in country and western). Start with any note – C or Bb or E or whatever – and there are 12 tones from that starting note up to that same note an octave higher.
Example: C C# D D# E F F# G G# A A# B. Each position for playing a blues harp refers to starting a scale using one of these 12 notes as the root (“starting” note) of the scale. 1st position is the scale that begins with the root note at hole 1 blow (i.e. the key of the harp). The circle of 5ths can help you for the starting note for any position on any blues harp.
Okay guys (and gals?) I’ve figured out this whole “second position” thing. I’ve had a lot of preconceptions about it, but after watching way too many videos, reading one too many pdfs and also this thread, I’ve finally mythbusted some of my preconceptions:
= YOU CAN"T “JUST PLAY” SOMETHING IN SECOND POSITION On the Fly. Unless maybe you are a musical genius or Japanese or whatever. it’s NOT about “just moving one hole to the right” - the “mapping” of holes is way more involved.
=To actually play something in second position, you need to find tabs for playing something in second position or make them yourself, and depending on the melody it may or many not be feasible
As an example, Here is the basic Happy Birthday tune:
6 6 –6 6 7 –7
6 6 –6 6 –8 7
6 6 9 8 7 –7 –6
–9 –9 8 7 –8 7
Here is the second position version.
-1 -1 2 -1 -2 2’
-1 -1 2 -1 3" -2
-1 -1 -4 -3 2? 2 2" 2b
4 4 -3 -2 3" -2d
While there is a logic to how it’s done, there are just too many “quirks” to this system to be able to do this in real time (which is what I assumed people were doing any why I was so frustrated). There is no “magical second position secret”, it just requires that you re-write the tabs.
It seems like there are kind of two different questions inside of this thread.
Positions
The Blues Scale
Short answer on positions: what hole is your home base?
1st pos: 1,4,7,10
2nd pos: -2,3,6,9
3rd pos: -1 -4 -8
4th pos: -3", -6, -10
For your first 5 or 10 years, probably 1st and 2nd position is basically all you need.
Maybe some 3rd position.
Regarding the Blues Scale, it’s just a group of notes that you can draw from to improvise over the blues that sound good. You can use other notes too, but it’s a great jumping off place, and 2nd position is the most common place for Blues.
@kjlarochelle made a cool graphic of all the blues scale notes that are available on a standard harmonica without overblows or overdraws:
Missing the -3’ in the upper octave is the note that harmonica players always wish they had, which is the nice thing about a Parrott tuning.
Thanks Luke! Regarding the “home base” you mentioned for 2nd/3rd/etc,can you confirm my understanding that the definition “using it”, as you put it, means you take the tabs, convert them for that position and play the tabs? OR can some people read the “regular” tab and automatically play them in 2nd/3rd?
@yuriythebest - The tabs you are reading are already in a position. If you’re reading tabs to Ode to Joy, you’re playing in 1st position. If you’re reading tabs to Whammer Jammer, you’re playing in 2nd position. If you’re reading the tabs to Scarborough Fair, you’re playing in 3rd position.
The last part of your question you seem to be asking about transposing a melody or lick from one position to another.
This is sometimes done, often transposing from 1st to 2nd position in order to “bluesify” a song.
For example, I first learned Amazing Grace in 1st position, starting on the 3 blow. Then I thought, “I wonder if I could play this in 2nd position?” So I figured it out starting on the -1.
But, unless you’re one of the lucky ones born with the gift of a superb ear (I wasn’t,) there’s quite a bit involved with this process.
THANK YOU!!
I finally have closure and confirmation.
This wasn’t immediately obvious to me, so for the longest time I kept watching various videos on positions/cross harp and also made this thread, because I thought the various diagrams and tutorials would show me how to play tabs in various positions but they never actually got to that point and It seemed like some big “secret” that one more video would reveal
