Honeyboy - IMHO I don’t think 8” speakers have a problem pushing sound. It’s the SJ amp and wiring. I had a Danelectro Commando with 8x8” wired serial and parallel. Maybe it was having four 6V6 power tubes that made it a killer amp, but the 8” speakers were just fine.
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I do agree that there are 8 inch speaker amps that are loud. I have a Kalamazoo 2 with an 8 inch speaker and those rock. BUT, still, with loud a$$ guitars any amp has a problem pushing enough sound, even 4x10 amps.
Look at Rod Piazzas’ amp. 6x10 speakers to fight guitar player volume. He used loud as you know what Concerts for years, but still not enough volume and West coast guys actually know how to manage volume to support a harp blower.
I just provided an amp for RJ Mischo for a gig. 1x12, 1x10, 1x8, bandmaster sized cabinet. Sonny Junior Beast. RJ couldn’t hear himself on stage and the soundman was more into drowning him out with 2 guitars than setting the harp to float on top of everything. Bummer.
So, yeah, some 8 inch speaker amps, like the rockin Kalamazoo 2 1x8, can be loud enough for lower volume gigs.
I used the SJ2 exclusively for about 3 years. 1997 through 2000. Eventually bought a couple Sonny Junior 4x10 amps. And a Concert. Now I have a Sonny Junior Avenger and Beast to compliment my SJ2.
By the way, the SJ2 needs a resistor modification that I did to mine…
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@HoneyBoy this is something I’ve been wondering about. Watts / Speaker Size / Volume. It’s really interesting.
I’ve been using a 4x4" cab with a 5W head, in stereo with a Pignose Hog 20 which has 1x6.5" speaker.
Interestingly, I can’t hardly turn up the Hog without it feeding back for some reason.
I have the 4x4" mic’d with an SM57 going into the PA, but even with that, I’m fighting the guitar volume.
I don’t like playing a quiet solo through the vocal mic, and then grabbing my amp mic to go balls to the walls, and having the overall volume be LOWER than when I was playing “acoustic” into the vocal mic. LOL. Defeats the whole purpose!
I was gonna try my 1972 Marshall 20W PA head into 2X12" cab this Saturday, but just found out we’re playing inside at the band leader said “bring smaller gear.” 
I also have a Monoprice StageRight 15W amp with 1x12" speaker. I’ve been wanting to get some 12AY7 tubes to swap out for the 12AX7’s. Haven’t done it yet, but thinking maybe running THAT in stereo with the Blackheat 5W 4x4" might be a good solution?
I’m also considering the Dyna-Mic to help me with the feedback issue.
I don’t know that there’s anyway to figure this stuff out, except just trial and error.
Again, my first suggestion is to buy a Kalamazoo Model 2 and fit it with an 8 inch speaker instead of the 10 inch speaker.
https://reverb.com/p/kalamazoo-model-two-amp-black-panel
Kal 2 is 6 watts of pure, loud harp tone. There’s one on Reverb for $650, reduced from $1000. Many are selling for $1500. Unlikely I would fetch $1500 for my Sonny Junior 2 with two output tranny’s (hope I haven’t offended anyone) and 6x8 speakers. I paid around $250 for a Kal2 ~2004. I used it with a 5 piece gig with 2 guitarists playing acoustic guitars through large amps, stripped down drum kit, and regular bass. Plenty loud.
Next option is to go with a graphic equalizer and tune out or diminish the feedback frequencies. Here is a suggestion from someone who experimented with a GE and sent his findings to Sonny Junior (Gary Onofrio).
Due to the spread from 800 ohms to 1.6K these are the two frequencies you pull down on, a little of each at a time, or start with 1.6K, no more than half to 3/4 ( never want to take any frequency fully out or a gap in tone is left ), then with little remaining feedback the 800 ohm slide will get rid of it. So you want to put the amp in feedback first using the boost slide on right as the pedal will suck down some of the gain just with it plugged in, or raise volume on amp. Having the treble pushed up past where you would is key as that’s your projection. If any bottom is wanted to be added just very slight on the those with the pedal as it will go into low hum feedback. Not a big fan of boosting lows, the amp should do it.
You can also add a pure tone boost with the GE. Not certain that will work with your setup, but worth a try. Here are components SJ sent to me in 2015. Never got around to using them because I bought larger amps.
Finally, yes, trial and error, and then everything will change onstage as soon as you figure it all out, especially if it isn’t your band.
Good Luck!!!
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All that being said, the issue isn’t the speakers or the amp. Somebody needs to trade out the guitar players or the soundman. It’s not can you compete? It’s why should you have to?
I sold my Bassman because 53 lbs was too much to lug. I stopped playing with blues rockers. They thought that if it fit in a 12-bar frame, it was blues.
If guys can’t play the shit, and they don’t understand dynamics why waste time? Same for the rhythm section. Bass is not the lead instrument.
I now rely on a 17w, 1944 Masco A-17 through a cabinet I designed that has 2x8” and 1x10”. Sometimes that’s my PA and I play through an 8w 1947 Silvertone 1300. The amps are just fine. Playing with the right guys, everyone is heard and nobody gets buried.
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Amen, @BnT !! I agree 100% with everything you say. Here where I live there is a local band appropriately named “Loudness” – the name says it all. 
Regards,
– Slim 
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Yep, where I live a lot of people seem to think the heavy rock they are playing is Blues because it’s in a 12 barre format. I’ve been having that problem for ages. It’s as if they are afraid to turn down because every one else plays loud. I think it’s because most people who’ve heard Led Zeppelin or cream SRV etc think that is the Blues but it really isn’t. It’s really a pastiche played by people influenced by blues. At least ZZ Top have the balls to say what they play isn’t the blues, it’s blues influenced Rock played their way. I also think as someone who plays guitar as well as harp, that a lot of guitarists use volume as a crutch. Volume and pedals can hid a multitude of sins and they won’t turn down because they are afraid of sounding scrappy or making mistakes. They should really get over themselves and listen to some Hound Dog Taylor
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Yeah, in a perfect world.
I’ve spoken to world class, professional, touring pros and they all complain about soundmen ruining gigs.
Difficult, if not impossible, to eliminate a stupid soundman in the middle of a gig on tour.
And what one person on stage considers loud volume is different from musician to musician. Better to have fire power AND tone.
I watched Robert Lucas play a gig in el hambra, CA with a tiny silvertone amp. Slide and harp. But that’s an exception.
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I am assuming you mean Hz here, not ohms " Due to the spread from 800 ohms to 1.6K?
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I would agree that is a typo especially since graphic equalizer frequency bands are in HZ not Ohms. Not my text. Cut n paste. Good catch. (Cannot edit at this point in time. Posted too long ago.) Thanks for pointing out this typo!!!
Just a thought regarding the problems people seem to be having matching amp outputs/volumes to environments/other players. I realise i’m speaking with a fair degree of ignorance here as a beginner harp player who doesnt gig but also as a guitarist with a bit more. Would not something like a Fender Princeton Tonemaster with it’s built in attenuator solve most problems? This can be turned down to a just 0.3 watts all the way up to a pretty loud 12w. I know the jury is probably still out on digital amps but i own a vox ac30, Fender Blues Deluxe and Marshall amps and the Fender Tonemaster are equal to any of them (Imo)
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Billy Branch uses a solid state Peavy amp with a 1×10 or 1x12. Mics it through the PA. So solid state amps have been used by players who still present great tone and response. Not certain what Billy used on Harp Attack with James Cotton, Carey Bell, and Junior Wells, but he brought the tone and response receipts. (And of course his mic plays an important role as well. I think he had used something like a Shure 533SA, but I do not recall. Not a crystal, CR, or CM element. Now he appears to be using a standard Shure vocal mic held in his hands.)
After trying many amps for harp, i eventually started using Sonny Junior amps. Sonny was a pioneer. Great tone. Better volume than most without feedback due to his designs changing preamp tubes to lower gain tubes. Guitar amps with tubes typically run 12AX7 preamp tubes. Sonny ran different configurations of 12AT, 12AY, 12AU, and 5751 tubes. And he used tube rectifiers, not solid state rectifiers.
I suppose anything can work depending on the environment if you have time to experiment, but not as easy when attending a Jam with unknown players. And since, according to Sonny and others, the guilty frequencies causing feedback are known or can be determined for anyone’s environment, and can be “easily” attenuated with a graphic equalizer that costs maybe $100USD, that would be my choice.
Finally, again, adequate stage volume without feedback is a well known problem for all touring professional harp blowers. Some nights you’re the windshield and some nights you’re the bug…
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I bought a Sonny Jr Cruncher around 2001. I didn’t want to be just one more harp player with a Bassman and locally Gary Smith played one and it sounded great.
What I learned later was that Gary Smith had great tone no matter what, that the Cruncher had an undersized/powered transformer, and it wasn’t comparable to a Bassman. So it was fine for a small-medium club, but not so much for larger venues or outdoors.
I was aware Gary Onofrio had some medical issues back in 2001. When I went to sell it I also found:
- In need of money, Gary increased unit production and dropped prices, making money on volume of sales.
- Service was not provided to subsequent owners. They had to buy from the company to get service. No incentive to buy used.
- So, the company impeded resale.
- Therefore, mine didn’t hold its value.
I sold the Cruncher at a loss six months after buying. Didn’t leave me feeling good about Sonny Jr amps. I think they fixed the transformer issue a year or two later. That’s my Sonny Jr experience.
I subsequently bought a ‘59 Bassman RI for $650, had Skip Simmons rebuild it, dropped in two Eminence blue frames and two new Weber speakers, replaced the (guitar suited) tubes with 1950s NOS tubes and added a Boss ‘63 Fender Reverb pedal. It was “tubed down” from 50w to 38w but still noticeably louder. A much better rig for me. It cost less for all that than what I sold the Cruncher for. And I ultimately sold the Bassman for about twice what I had into it.
Along the way I learned how Skip Simmons was integrally involved in designing the schematics and as a consultant for Gary Onofrio for the original Sonny Jr amps, a fact omitted from their history.
I think Sonny Jr amps are good, a series of nice ideas and fixes, an evolution, but not the Holy Grail of harp amps. Maybe that’s what I’d expected or hoped for.
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@HoneyBoy thank you so much for the tip about trying the EQ pedal to deal with the feedback! Brilliant!!!
I had an opportunity on Saturday to take my amp (A Blackheart 5W head into a 4x4" cab) to my 2 local music stores and A/B it with a host of other amps (Vintage Fender Champ, Peavey Delta Blues, Fender Hot Rod IV, and several others) and happily I discovered that, although these other amps were able to project the sound LOUDER than my rig, I really LOVE the sound of my rig!
Then I grabbed a Boss GE-7 Graphic Equalizer pedal, notched out 1.6 kHz, and BOOM I could turn up the volume knob higher than I ever have without any feedback.
I used it on a gig Saturday night. And it worked great. But we were inside a very reverberant restaurant/bar and the drummer and bass player were playing vey sensitively. Because of space, I didn’t use my pedal board or 2nd amp. We didn’t do the funk and loud rock tunes that we would do in a bigger venue with a dance floor.
I’ll look forward to trying it out in a few weeks with the full rig in a louder band scenario.
Still looking for a Kalamazoo, but unfortunately shipping is like $200 to Hawaii.
There’s a guy selling a Fender Pro Junior IV for $400, but it’s like a 2 hour drive from my house. Not sure if it’s worth going and checking out. Anyone have experience with them?
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Found this on Youtube. FPJIV.
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Dude, c’mon man, get that Sonny Jr burr out from beneath your saddle.
I wasn’t planning to respond, but I can’t let these distortions of the Truth go unchallenged. (Sonny is working an amp project for me at this time and I want to add my Sonny Junior story to yours.)
Here’s my rebuttal to your shakedown of my friend Gary Onofrio, Sonny Junior.
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Ironically, Sonny Junior was building modified reissue Bassmans in 2001. Skip Simmons was helping him with this endeavor. The Cruncher wasn’t developed until 2005. Sonny was developing his 4x10 in 2004 when I bought 2 prototypes from him. All the guitar players loved my 4x10s, but they were heavy. So Sonny started Cruncher development to create a lighter amp. I never owned a Cruncher or Super Cruncher. The Avenger was another heavy amp (1x12, 1x10, 2x8) in a Bassman sized cabinet. It followed the Super Cruncher. The Beast (3x10 or 1x12, 1x10, and 1x8), his last amp, was a bandmaster sized cabinet. R J Mischo sounded phenomenal through the Beast 8/2/2024. Every harp blower in the room thought so. Unfortunately the sound-man had him low in the mix during a couple songs, but otherwise the tone sound from the amp was what every harp blower dreams about.
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Scott Simmons did NOT develop the schematics for Sonny’s amps, but he was available anytime Sonny needed help with his designs. Sonny and Skip met at the Dave Barrett 2000 Masterclass. I believe Sonny exhibited his Sonny Terry chops during the 2000 Masterclass as a paid performer, as Sonny Junior was Sonny Terry’s driver and duet partner for a couple years between 1976 and 1978.
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Sonny NEVER said his amps would be the harp volume savior in every gig scenario to compensate for loud stage volume. But he did provide a line-out within every amp just in case the harp blower needed additional support. And the SJII had a speaker output in case you wanted to run another cabinet.
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If you buy a new car and try to sell it, the rumor is you lose $2000 just driving it off the showroom floor. Why should an amp be any different? And I will also state, Sonny’s amps are worth $5000, with old ratty 50’s and 60’s Bassman amps selling for $10,000, but so long as scumbags rule the world, we just have to take the hit. I have mics I bought in 2001 that sell for what I paid back then and the dollar of 2001 for a $300 mic is now about $530.
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I asked Sonny this morning why he stopped supporting second hand buyers. He stated most of them weren’t willing to pay him $75 for unlimited support, so after 50 or 60 emails, he simply stopped responding. What is wrong with that business model?
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And now I have to ask you based on your Gary Smith’s tone comment and your the amps are not the holy grail comments. First off, Kim Wilson stated at the time, the SJI was the “best amp out of the box” he’d ever played, so maybe your ability and tone weren’t ready for the Sonny Junior line of amps. Is it possible that’s the real story here? I remember the SJII had me in a bad place for a while until I started playing through it with a black label CR mic element. Crystal mics weren’t cutting it. No response or desired tone.
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Finally, yes, Sonny has had many health issues throughout the years, Be thankful they weren’t your health issues. Sonny Junior is tougher than nails. Huge health issues and still produced Holy Grail harp amps for nearly 30 years now. He was on the cutting edge and he was THE pioneer of Holy Grail harmonica amps IMHO.
Anyone reading this post should always consider a Sonny Junior amp for old school Chicago harmonica blues, and as @Sunseeker95 learned, you can buy one for a steal these days thanks to them. My SJII for which I paid $1995USD in 1997 would cost over $3900USD in today’s money, and mint SJIIs are selling for less than $1500USD today. And my SJII lights up and plays well to this day. Buy a Sonny Junior amp if you can afford one when it’s available on eBay or Reverb.
Be well my friend @BnT !
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@BnT My only comment here is young aspiring harp players should first seek out a guitar player that enjoys backing harp. Unlikely you’ll find one, but they do exist. BnT apparently doesn’t understand that East and West coast blues music scenes are not like flyover country: there hasn’t been a single strictly harp backing guitar player in my town since I arrived in 1983. And most other guitar players do not prefer to back harp because they have different aspirations.
So, look for a harp backing guitar player or become that harp backing guitar player. Rumor has it when Rick Estrin and Charlie Baty started playing music together both played harp. Charlie switched to guitar and what a guitar player he became. A guitar player’s guitar player. And what a band Little Charlie and the Night Cats became.
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That’s not a Rumour that’s a fact, Little Charlie Baty was a brilliant harp player, I’ve seen him play. So yes, that’s why he was harp sympathetic and he played really great for Rick, Little Charlie also had a say on who replaced him in the Night Cats it was on his recommendation that Rick Chose Kid Anderson. I love both Little Charlie and the Night Cats and Rick Estrin and the Night cats, they are my favorite band, with the Fabulous Thunderbirds coming in Second.
@HoneyBoy thanks for the FPJIV vid! Amp sounds pretty good in the vid. The one I’m seeing on Craigslist here where I live is black, not tweed. Any idea if there’s any difference between them, or they should be fairly comparable? I’m trying to find the time to drive 2 hours (each way) to where this guys is selling his, but it’s hard to find the time, lol.
Yes, to your point about guitar players. In my situation the guitar player is hiring me. I’m not hiring him lol. So his rules. The band does play with dynamics, but when we get BIG, I wanna make sure I can surf on top of that tsunami, lol.
I respect and love everyone who’s over loud stuff. I’ve never been a big fan of overly loud, and I do often wear ear plugs. BUT, the fact is a lot of NORMAL (non-musician) people LOVE LOUD. I don’t know. Something about feeling the vibrations in their bodies or something. They just love it loud. And rock guitar players love to give it to them loud, lol. Anyways, I think the EQ pedal may have already gotten me there, so thanks again for the tip!! I’ll check back in a few weeks after my next gig and let you know how it went.
@BnT I agree with your 
that the BIGGEST component of the tone of ANY instrument is the PLAYER! Make no mistake. Tone comes from the player 1st. The tools are secondary.
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Music can be loud it’s when it’s distorted all to hell I can’t stand